Jun 12, 2009

Greece Not Interested in Sharing the Marbles

Parthenon Marbles at the British Museum
Greek Culture Minister Antonis Samaras has said his nation is not interested in working out a loan arrangement for the Parthenon Marbles. 

I can certainly understand that point of view, but at some point don't we need to move beyond the question of whether that taking in 1801-2 was wrongful; and start asking what is best for the marbles and those who want to learn from them today?  I don't want to belabor the point, but isn't the fact that the marbles are still on display at the British Museum a pretty strong indication that their removal was legal, or if not, not subject to current judicial scrutiny?  We can argue about whether their continued display in London is ethical, but not I do not think a legal question any longer. 

From the BBC:

The government, as any other Greek government would have done in its place, is obliged to turn down the offer," Mr Samaras said, in a statement. 
"This is because accepting it would legalise the snatching of the Marbles and the monument's carving-up 207 years ago." 
He added that he was prepared to discuss lending Greek antiquities to the British Museum "to fill the gap left when the (Parthenon) Marbles finally return to the place they belong". 
Mr Samaras was responding to comments made by British Museum spokeswoman, Hannah Boulton, on Greek radio. 
She said under existing British Museum policy the museum would consider loan requests by any foreign government, including Greece. 
But all requests would be considered on a case-to-case basis, taking many factors into consideration, including fitness of the item or items to travel. 
Greece would also have to recognise the museum's ownership rights to the sculptures, which is a loan condition.

Ms Boulton told the BBC that the British Museum had not received a request from Greece, nor had it offered the marbles for loan.

4 comments:

Anonymous said...

As you know, I have been a regular reader of your blog over the last few years and have learnt quite a lot from you. I must say however, that what you have written today surprises me a lot, especially this sentence: “I don't want to belabor the point, but isn't the fact that the marbles are still on display at the British Museum a pretty strong indication that their removal was legal, or if not, not subject to current judicial scrutiny? “ I do not want to enter into an argument about the legality or legitimacy of the presence of the Parthenon/Elgin Marbles in the British Museum since we know there are more than enough writings on this matter.

I shall still continue to read your excellent contributions and hope that this is an exception to your usual critical output. Kwame Opoku

Unknown said...

Thanks for the comment, but I guess I don't understand how the comment you raise was all that controversial. I think the Greeks have a powerful ethical claim to the marbles, but do we really think that if they brought a claim in the High Court that an English court would order them returned to Greece? Far too much time has elapsed has it not? Limitations periods would certainly defeat the claim, even assuming that the original legal rights Lord Elgin had to them may have been lacking.

That's not to say the two parties can't come to some sort of collaborative agreement—though neither side seems keen to do anything of the sort.

liz said...

I have to say I agree with Dr. Opoku. If the issue were as straightforward as you suggest, there would hardly be the rivers of ink devoted to it. The legality can be challenged on any number of grounds (did Elgin overstep the boundaries of the firman, etc.); but as you say, the legal aspect is only one piece of a very ethically (and, I would add, epistemologically) complex issue. Your comment is simplistic at best, and seems far below the level of sophistication your readers have come to expect.

Pete NewCurator said...

There's nothing like ad hominem arguments in the morning...

Labels

"Bronze Statue of a Victorious Youth" (17) 1954 Hague Convention (12) 1972 World Heritage Convention (1) Aboriginal Heritage (1) Aboriginal Heritage Act 1988 (SA) (2) act of state doctrine (1) Admiralty Law (11) Afghanistan (10) Africa (4) Albright-Knox Gallery (3) Aleppo (2) Alfred Stieglitz (2) Alternative Dispute Resolution (1) Angkor (1) Anti-Seizure Legislation (1) antiquites (3) antiquities (337) Antiquities Act 1906 (2) Antiquities leasing (10) antiquities looting (4) antiquities smuggling (3) antiquities theft (6) ARCA (8) ARCA Annual Conference (10) ARCA MA Program (6) Archaeological Resources Protection Act (5) Archival Recovery Team (ART) (3) Archives (1) Armed Conflict (22) Arrests (79) Art and Cultural Heritage Law (1) Art Beat Constables (9) Art Crime Statistics (1) art fraud (9) art history (1) Art Institute Chicago (3) art law (1) Art Loans (9) Art Loss Register (19) Art Market (10) Art Theft (263) Artist Resale Right (1) arts funding (1) Association of Art Museum Directors (AAMD) (8) Athens (3) Auction (99) austerity (2) Australia (7) Austria (3) Authentication (3) Babylon (3) Banksy (1) Big Bend National Park (1) bilateral agreements (2) Black Hills (1) Bolton Forgers (4) Book Theft (3) Brazil (5) British Museum (13) Bronze (5) Bronze Statue of a Victorious Youth (1) Brueghel (1) Bruno Lohse (3) Brussels (1) Bührle Collection Theft (4) Bulgaria (4) Burke and Wills (2) Burns Mummies (1) Byzantine Artifacts (4) Cairo (1) Cairo art theft (2) California Raids (6) Caligula (1) Cambodia (11) Camille Pissarro (7) Carabinieri (6) Caravaggio (1) catalogue raisonné (1) Cellini Salt Cellar (2) Central Park (1) Cerveteri (1) Chance Finds (3) Charles Goldie (1) Chihuly Glass (1) China (16) Christie's (14) Church Thefts (6) Civil War (2) Claude Monet (4) Claudia Seger-Thomschitz (3) Cleveland Bronze Apollo (2) Cleveland Museum of Art (CMA) (5) Coins (7) Colonial Art (1) Columbia (1) Conferences (7) Conservation (1) Conventions (1) Copyright (5) Corot (1) Corrections (1) cosmpoplitanism (4) Costa Rica (2) CPIA (10) criminal charges (5) criminology (1) Crystal Bridges Museum (5) Cultral Property Advisory Committee (9) Cultural First Aid (2) cultural heritage (6) cultural heritage careers (2) Cultural Heritage Moot Court Competition (2) Cultural heritage movement (1) cultural justice (3) cultural policy (18) cultural property (4) Cultural Resource Management (1) cultural security (1) culture funding (1) curatorial theft (2) Cycladic Figurines (1) Cyprus (9) Dahshour (1) Dallas Museum of Art (DMA) (2) Database (5) Databases (4) DCMS (2) Deaccessioning (24) Dead Sea Scrolls (1) Dealing in Cultural Objects (Offences) Act 2003 (4) Declaratory Suits (4) Demand and Refusal (2) Design and Artists Copyright Society (1) Detroit Institute of Art (1) development (1) Dick Ellis (2) Diplomatic Bags (1) Doctrine of Discovery (3) Donald Trump (3) Donny George Youkhanna (2) Dr. No (6) Droite de Suite (2) Dubai (1) due diligence (5) eBay (5) Economics (1) Ecuador (1) Edgar Degas (2) Edinburgh (1) Edoardo Almagia (1) Edvard Munch (2) Egon Schiele (4) Egypt (55) El-Hibeh (2) Elgin Marbles (5) empirical studies (1) England (4) environmental justice (4) Environmental law (2) Erik Nemeth (1) Etruscans (2) Euphronios Krater (4) European Court of Human Rights (1) Export Restrictions (19) Fakes (6) FBI (16) FBI Art Crime Team (16) Festivus (1) Fifth Circuit (1) fire (1) Fisk University (3) Footnotes (59) force multiplier (1) Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act (FSIA) (6) forfeiture (13) Forgery (27) fossils (2) Four Corners Antiquities Investigation (11) fractional ownership (2) Francavilla Marittima (1) France (30) Francesco Rutelli (15) Frans van Mieris (2) Frederick Schultz (3) freedman's town (2) Gaza (1) George Grosz (1) Georgia (1) Georgia O'Keeffe (2) Germanicus (2) Germany (16) Getty (1) Ghent Altarpiece (1) Giacomo Medici (6) Gianfranco Becchina (1) Golf (3) good faith (3) Goya (3) Goya theft (4) graffiti (1) Greece (38) Grosz (1) Henri Matisse (1) Henry Moore (1) Heritage at Risk (1) heritage crime (1) Heritage Crime in Art (1) Hermitage (2) High Court in London (4) historic documents (1) Historic Landmark (1) historic preservation (1) historic weapons (1) Holocaust (Return of Cultural Objects) Act (2) Hopi (1) House of Commons Illicit Trade Advisory Panel (ITAP) (1) Houston (2) Howard Spiegler (2) Human Remains (5) Human Rights (1) Hungary (1) Identification (1) illicit excavation (1) Immigration and Customs Enforcement (16) Immunity (6) Immunity from Seizure Act (ISA) (3) import restrictions (3) in the media (7) Indemnity (1) Indianapolis Museum of Art (5) indictments (5) Indigenous Rights (2) Indonesia (1) injunctions (1) Insider Theft (2) Institute d'Egypte (1) Institute of Art and Law (1) Institutional theft (1) Intellectual Property (4) Intentional Destruction (6) International Criminal Court (ICC) (1) International Journal of Cultural Property (1) internationalism (4) INTERPOL (1) Interview (2) Interviews (2) Iran (8) Iran v. Barakat Galleries Ltd. (6) Iran v. Berend (3) Iraq (46) Isabella Stuart Gardner Museum (7) Islamic art (2) Israel (4) Istanbul (2) Italian Art Squad (5) Italian Culture Ministry (6) Italy (122) Jacques Goudstikker (4) James Ossuary (1) Jan Breugel the elder (2) Jan van Eyck (1) Japan (3) Jeanneret v. Vichy (1) Jeff Tweedy (1) Jenack v. Rabizadeh (1) JMW Turner (2) John Constable (1) Jonah Marbles (1) Jonathan Tokeley-Parry (1) Jordan (2) Joseph Farquharson (2) Journal Articles (1) Journal of Art Crime (1) Ka-Nefer-Nefer (9) Kansas (2) Kansas City (1) Kazimir Malevich (3) Kenya (1) Kingsland (3) Klimt (3) Koh Ker (6) Konowaloff v. Metropolitan Museum of Art (1) Kunsthal Museum Theft (2) La Dea Di Morgantina (6) Lawrence Kaye (1) Lebanon (1) Leonardo Da Vinci (9) Leopold Museum (1) Lewis Chessmen (5) lex originis (3) lex situs (5) Libya (2) Lincoln's Inn theft (1) Lithographs (1) loans (5) London (6) London Art and Antiques Unit (7) London Metropolitan Police (2) loot (1) looting (30) Los Angeles County Museum of Art (LACMA) (2) Los Angeles Museum of Contemporary Art (MOCA) (1) LS Lowry (3) Lucas Cranach (1) Lucas Cranach the Elder (3) Lucian Freud (1) Macedonia (1) Machu Picchu (12) Madonna of the Yarnwinder (recovery) (9) Mali (4) Malta (1) Manchester (2) manuscript (1) Maori (2) maps (2) Marc Chagall (1) Marion True (25) Mark Landis (1) market overt (1) Mausoleum at Helicarnassus (1) Max Stern (3) Maxwell Anderson (3) metal detecting (6) Metropolitan Museum of Art (the Met) (29) Mexico (9) Meyer de Haan (1) MFA Boston (6) Michael Brand (3) Michael C. Carlos Museum (1) Michael Steinhardt (2) Middle Eastern Geodatabase for Antiquities (MEGA) (1) Minneapolis Institue of Arts (MIA) (1) Moctezuma's Headdress (1) Modigliani (2) MoMA (4) Mondrian (1) Monet (3) Montreal Museum of Fine Art (2) Monument Men (5) Monuments Men (1) Moral Rights (3) Morgantina (2) Morgantina Aphrodite (9) Morgantina Treasure (1) Moscow (2) Musée d'Art Moderne theft (1) Museum Acquisitions (1) Museum Governance (1) Museum of Anatolian Civilizations (1) Museum of Fine Arts in Boston (6) museum security (2) museum theft (2) Museums Libraries and Archives Council (MLA) (1) Music (2) Myth (1) Napoleon III (1) National Academy (2) National Archaeological Museum in Naples (1) National Archives (3) National Gallery (Washington) (1) National Historic Preservation Act (2) National Stolen Property Act (8) nations of origin (5) Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act (8) Native Americans (17) native cultures (2) Nazi Spoliation (74) Neglect (1) Neil Brodie (1) Nelson-Atkins' Bloch Building (1) Netherlands (10) New Acropolis Museum (3) New Orleans (4) New York (6) New Zealand (7) Nigeria (1) nighthawking (3) Noah Charney (1) Norbert Schimmel (1) Norman Palmer (1) Norman Rockwell (2) Norway (4) NSPA (1) Nuclear Analytical Techniques (1) Odyssey Marine Exploration (23) Olympics (2) Omaha Nebraska (1) Organized Crime (1) Orphaned Works (2) Oskar Kokoschka (2) Oslo (1) Pablo Picasso (16) Pakistan (2) Palestine (3) Panama (1) Paolo Ferri (2) Paris (10) partage (1) Parthenon Marbles (17) Patents (1) Patty Gerstenblith (1) Paul Bator (2) Paul Cezanne (5) Paul Gauguin (4) Pazardzhik Byzantine Silver Hoard (1) Penn Museum (1) Pentagon (1) Pere Lachaise (1) Persepolis (3) Peru (24) Peru Headdress (1) Peter Watson (1) Philadelphia (7) Phillipines (1) Picasso (9) Pierre Le Guennec (1) Pierre Valentin (1) piracy (1) Pollock (1) Pompeii (3) Popular Culture (1) Portable Antiquities Scheme (25) Portrait of Wally (11) Poussin (1) pre-Columbian antiquities (2) pre-emptive archaeology (1) Prince Claus Fund (1) Princeton (4) Private Collectors (2) Private International Law (5) Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (UK) (1) Prosecutions (7) provenance (13) Prussia (1) Public Art Theft (5) Public Trust (1) Publications (2) Quran (1) Radio (2) Ransom (2) realkulturpolitik (1) recovery (45) Rembrandt (2) Rene Magritte (2) Renoir (2) Renvoi (3) repatriation (121) Restitution (40) reward (1) Rhodes (1) Robert Hecht (8) Robin Symes (1) Rodin (2) Roger Atwood (1) Roman Objects (2) Rome (3) Rothko (1) Royal Academy (1) Rubens (3) Rubin v. Islamic Republic of Iran (2) Russia (11) Sale of "The Cello Player" (1) Sale of the "Gross Clinic" (11) Sale of the Stieglitz Collection (4) Salvage (1) Sao Paulo (2) Sao Paulo Museum of Art (3) Scheduled Ancient Monuments (1) Scholarship - Articles and Essays (57) Scholarship - Book Reviews (3) Scholarship - Books (12) Scholarship - Case Notes (1) Scholarship - Events and Conferences (55) Scholarship - Journal Articles (12) Scholarship - Student Papers (16) Scotland (7) Scotland Yard's Arts and Antiques Squad (1) scrap metal (1) Sculpture (2) security (4) seizure (16) Selling stolen art (1) seminars (1) semiotics (1) Sentencing (2) Serbia (1) settlement (1) Sevso Treasure (6) Shelby White (3) shipwreck (1) Sicily (4) Simon Mackenzie (2) Sisley (4) Slovakia (1) Smithsonian (4) Solomon R. Guggenheim (1) Sonic Fingerprints (1) Sotheby's (13) Sotheby's Paris (1) South Africa (1) South America (1) Spain (21) Spoliation (2) Spoliation Advisory Panel (8) St. Louis Art Museum (8) St. Ninian's Isle Treasure (3) Stair Gallery (2) State Department (2) Statue of a Victorious Youth (1) statute of frauds (1) Statutes of Limitations (10) Stephane Breitwieser (1) Stephen Colbert (1) Steven Spielberg (1) stewardship (2) Stolen Art (11) Stone Age (1) street art (1) study collections (1) Summer Palace Bronzes (7) Sweden (2) Switzerland (13) Syria (7) Taliban (1) Tennessee (3) The Art Fund (1) The Bowers Museum (1) The Discovery Rule (4) the fourth ward (1) The Getty (58) The Gross Clinic (1) The Guggenheim (2) The Holocauset (stolen art) restitution bill (2) the Louvre (2) The Menil (4) The National Gallery (1) The National Gallery (London) (2) the Pirate Party (1) The Scream (1) theft (2) Thomas Eakins (9) Thomas Jefferson (1) Timbuktu (2) Titian (1) Toledo Museum of Art (4) tombaroli (2) tourism (1) transparency (1) Traprain Law (1) Traveling Exhibitions (2) Treasure Act (4) treasure trove (3) Turkey (11) UCC (1) Ukraine (2) UN (2) Underground Salt Museum (1) Underwater Cultural Heritage (32) Underwater Sites - "Black Swan" (3) Underwater Sites - "Blue Baron" (1) Underwater Sites - HMS Victory (3) UNESCO (23) UNESCO Convention (24) UNESCO Convention on the Protection of Underwater Cultural Heritage (9) UNIDROIT Convention (2) United Kingdom (24) United States (12) University College London (1) University of Chicago (1) University of Guelph (1) University of Virginia (3) urban development (1) Van Gogh (7) Vandalism (4) Vatican (1) Vermeer (2) Victoria And Albert Museum (3) Vigango (3) viking (1) Villa Giulia (3) Vineberg v. Bissonnette (4) Visual Artists Rights Act (2) voluntary returns (1) Von Saher v. Norton Simon Museum of Art at Pasadena (3) Watts Towers (1) Waverley Criteria (10) Week in Review (3) West Bank (1) wikiloot (1) Wilco (1) William S. Burroughs (1) Windsor Antiquities Indictment (1) World Heritage Sites (1) World War II (11) Yale University (13) year in review (2) Zahi Hawass (9)

LinkWithin

Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...